Curse

Zawk Tirson · Mar 23, 2011, 01:46 AM // 01:46

My guild has been trying to get into gvg lately. Most of us are new to it, but we're trying to get better. We've run into this issue quite a few times. Since we have no chance of winning against them, so it's all very discouraging. Those matches aren't even all that useful as a learning exercise in what to do right, because we can just watch Obs for that. Hopefully something is done to get more guilds into gvg, but I have no clue what that could be.

InfernalSuffering · Mar 23, 2011, 03:37 AM // 03:37

Due to the number of people playing during American hours there are really only two options.

Option #1:
Do excessive smurfing, tanking and remaking guilds on a regular basis, to the point that people complain about actually facing good guilds (back when I was trying to get better, I loved playing good guilds because it was a chance to learn). The top tier teams end up playing lower tier teams for easy matches, but at least games are played.

Option #2:
Play normally, stay in one guild, and hit the enter battle button. Because there are only a handful of guilds playing, this means that you will get the same opponents as Option #1, but it will take at best two to three times longer to get those opponents.

Option #3:
Stop playing the game.

Needless to say, Option #3 is by far the most popular with Option #1 being the compromise a few people make because they still have fun playing the game. It seems most people in this thread are ignorant enough to want to push players from Option#1 to Option #3. Because that's really the best way to get GvG active again right?

Elnino · Mar 23, 2011, 04:00 AM // 04:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by InfernalSuffering

Due to the number of people playing during American hours there are really only two options.

Option #1:
Do excessive smurfing, tanking and remaking guilds on a regular basis, to the point that people complain about actually facing good guilds (back when I was trying to get better, I loved playing good guilds because it was a chance to learn). The top tier teams end up playing lower tier teams for easy matches, but at least games are played.

Option #2:
Play normally, stay in one guild, and hit the enter battle button. Because there are only a handful of guilds playing, this means that you will get the same opponents as Option #1, but it will take at best two to three times longer to get those opponents.

Option #3:
Stop playing the game.

Needless to say, Option #3 is by far the most popular with Option #1 being the compromise a few people make because they still have fun playing the game. It seems most people in this thread are ignorant enough to want to push players from Option#1 to Option #3. Because that's really the best way to get GvG active again right?

Fair point, but it would be hard to learn from top players if they are trolling you during the match as claimed by some people in this thread. Their trolling would just deteriorate the learning experience of these beginner GvGers.

infi · Mar 23, 2011, 08:03 AM // 08:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elnino

Fair point, but it would be hard to learn from top players if they are trolling you during the match as claimed by some people in this thread. Their trolling would just deteriorate the learning experience of these beginner GvGers.

people WILL ALWAYS troll you in PvP. Get it as a common fact. It counts not only for GW but for any PvP game in the world. Btw any competitive environment trolls worst players. Have you seen how PvEers troll people for being bad? It constantly happens.

Also this:

Quote:

Almost every good player has been farmed and shit talked by many guilds over 6 years of playing GW, simply do what I did and wait 6 years to become mediocre enough to win

ive just fixed it a bit.

ousbique · Mar 23, 2011, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Option # 3 is the way to go i think.

Ghost Dog · Mar 23, 2011, 06:18 PM // 18:18

What's with the horrible analogies this week on guru?

Str0b0 · Mar 23, 2011, 08:26 PM // 20:26

This issue is one of the reasons why there are so few people on the ladder, that and a general lack of interest in PvP. There is no entry level anymore. The whole smurfing phenomenon has pretty much killed it. I mean no one wants to just get rolled every match. It takes the incentive right out of it. The worst part about it is these people who do the smurfing are some of the same people that cry about the state of GvG never bothering to realize that they are part of the problem.

*lemming* · Mar 23, 2011, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

This issue is one of the reasons why there are so few people on the ladder, that and a general lack of interest in PvP. There is no entry level anymore. The whole smurfing phenomenon has pretty much killed it. I mean no one wants to just get rolled every match. It takes the incentive right out of it. The worst part about it is these people who do the smurfing are some of the same people that cry about the state of GvG never bothering to realize that they are part of the problem.

Hardly.

If there weren't a lack of people playing, period, they wouldn't need to smurf to get matches.

Str0b0 · Mar 23, 2011, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Hardly.

If there weren't a lack of people playing, period, they wouldn't need to smurf to get matches.

and if they didn't smurf to get matches more people might play GvG instead of getting frustrated with getting rolled almost every match, but if there were more people playing then they wouldn't smurf as much and roll people every other match, but at the same time if they weren't smurfing more entry level guilds might get involved with GvG and bolster the ladder. We'll be at this all day.

pingu666 · Mar 24, 2011, 04:33 AM // 04:33

would basing the match's off or partly off players pvp rank help?

or perhaps make matches shorter and with entirely random guilds

I dont really know much about the pvp stuff, so :\

*lemming* · Mar 24, 2011, 05:08 AM // 05:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

and if they didn't smurf to get matches more people might play GvG instead of getting frustrated with getting rolled almost every match, but if there were more people playing then they wouldn't smurf as much and roll people every other match, but at the same time if they weren't smurfing more entry level guilds might get involved with GvG and bolster the ladder. We'll be at this all day.

The currently described scenario of a group of players rotating between guilds to get the same couple of opponents repeatedly isn't a common occurrence. Most of what new players describe as smurfs holding them down is a mixture of misinformation and excuse-making, fluffed up by hyperbole.

A couple of misconceptions to clear up:

*Smurfs are out to get you

This is only slightly true in American hours. There really aren't matches to be had except against low-ranked guilds, so you can legitimately argue that by smurfing, they're going to be running into lots of new players. Still, regardless, the main purpose is to get matches faster.

Something else to keep in mind: searching for a match on ladder is dependent on guild rating. The range of guild rating in which a match is looked for begins at 50(?) rating and gradually increases until 6 minutes, when rating stops being a factor. Given enough time in the queue, even the highest rated guild can be paired against a rating 900 guild. In other words, during dead hours, you'll be playing against them at some point anyway. The fact that they're on a rating 1000 guild just means that it'll take three instead of six minutes to get paired up.

In European hours, this is definitely false. There, smurfs are genuinely used for things like testing out new builds, since there's actually matches against reasonably-skilled competing guilds or other smurfs.

*Every match we get is against a smurf

Just because they have player or two with a tag you recognize doesn't mean that they're a smurf. Just because you lost to them in 2 minutes doesn't mean that they're a smurf (although this may well be true).

If anything, most guilds actually want their smurfs to be moderately high rating - if they're trying to trying to get some valid data out of testing a build, they don't want to play against guilds that'd be pushovers.

Luckily, with the current ladder k-value of 15, new smurfs don't stay in relevant range for more than a few matches. For Europeans, this means that smurfs get away from playing rating 1000 guilds fairly quickly. The problem arises when there's not a lot of guilds playing ladder (i.e. American hours), since the rating disparity basically stops being a factor in matchmaking.

tl;dr: The problem arises from no one playing. Smurfs are grossly exaggerated as an actual reason for the dissuasion of new players from getting into GvG.